Time to Join UKIP?

16 Responses to Time to Join UKIP?

1. neilfutureboy says:

   14 March 2013 at 17:29

   Very pleased to have you on board Mike. Nobody, both intelligent and not a hack, agrees with all the policies of their own party but parties are ultimately how politics is decided and with us having a less fixed electoral system UKIP must expect a significant number of seats in Holyrood and to become the only real opposition.
2. Mike Haseler says:

   14 March 2013 at 17:43

   When I joined the greens they had one MSP. After I joined they got 7. In the election after I left they got 2. Given the level of Green support (6 members in East Dunbartonshire) I don’t see any reason why UKIP couldn’t repeat that performance if they put in the same campaigning effort.
3. Mike Scott-Hayward says:

   15 March 2013 at 02:26

   Mike, quite right. And to campaign, we need serious and well informed supporters and troops on the ground. Our membership has risen by about 35% in Scotland since October and some who were serious players in other parties have spoken to me about joining us. And that includes at least one from the SNP. Common sense will out. The people are not daft – but it is not easy to move out of an accustomed comfort zone. I know, it took me over a year!
4. Mike Haseler says:

   15 March 2013 at 21:22

   Mike, I’ve only stood for elections twice. The first time in Watford I watched the liberal democrat machine make mincemeat of the opposition – but talking to local people I became quite disillusioned as everyone in my ward was complaining about problems with parking and the Lib Dem policy was to litter the place with double yellow lines.
   The next time, after working in renewables I found I supported the greens, and was astonished to find that with only 6 party members I was placed second on the list … after a drop in candidate from party head office. He then totally ignored the biggest local issue in the area which was the closure of a local hospital — i.e. localism — about as green as you can get, and I gathered that his support for its closure was because his girlfriend worked in the Royal or something.
   Then at the last election, I used the local website I run to put up a very pro-SNP article (basically saying the SNP could win … so no drum beating … just pointing out voting SNP could get out labour).
   And then when I tried to talk to the bitch she refused to meet me because I base my views on the climate on the evidence and not what idiots like her tell me I should believe.
   I remember the advice I was given by the Bury Lib Dem organiser (2 active members – me and him, although about a dozen would post leaflets at election). The advice he gave was “dog-dirt and litter” those are the two things that concern people, and those are the two things that win elections. Actually, he may also have mentioned pot-holes & street lamps as well.
   Come to think of it, Bury must also have had Lib Dem councillors … but they never appeared at meeting …. the real party was the workers delivering focus.
   I quite admired the efficiency of the Lib Dem election machinery. They had it all carefully planned out. A focus magazine every few months (because no one else bothered and it really hit home that the Lid Dems were “doing something” (badgering the lighting department to mend street lamps … even if it was months ago it go a mention). Then they had all the wards planned, they knew their target wards … planned posters, leaflets, canvassing …. got the workers enthused … I suppose serious candidates went to some kind of training session. And it won elections.
   I might stump up the money to join, but … you’ve got very little time before the next Scottish election. I presume you are going for the “second vote”. That’s quite a difficult exercise as you have to spread your helpers over a vast area.
   Where do I sign?
5. Mike Scott-Hayward says:

   16 March 2013 at 00:20

   Mike, I have waged campaigns againts Lib Dems in North East Fife for many a moon and their tactic of “street politics” certainly worked. They also banked on being “fashionable” and learning the trick of saying what they deduced locals wanted to hear; I came across many examples of that in practice – candidates giving a variation on a theme on doorsteps of adjacent houses after asking a question giving them the clue as to the householder’s direction of travel on the local issue! Clever stuff, but, in my book, devious.
   I can email or post an application form to you (helps “local” funds), or you can sign up online on our web site (http://www.ukip.org/helpukip). Drop me an email (mikescotthayward@msn.com) with your address if you’d like a form from me.
   We spoke briefly in Glasgow; I am encouraged by your interest. Our first target will be the Euro Elections where we could secure most seats across the UK. We do target the list votes for the Scottish Parliament but have had first past the post constituency candidates as well where there is some track record to work on. Realistically, the list systems will help us and a breakthrough is now on the cards, given the recent trend. Keep in touch?
6. Mike Haseler says:

   16 March 2013 at 01:12

   Mike, you are fortunate my wife chose a rather boring film as I joined on-line. I’ll be honest and say this is perhaps mostly a “thankyou” to Neil and Robert for their support on SCEF … and two fingers to the SNP who.
   A couple of points before I go to bed.
   My wife read your manifesto (which is something she does for a job) and she said it sounds as if it is written by one person. I would agree. There’s an odd selection of single issue policies ranging from “removing all speed cameras” to “stronger legislation for animal cruelty”.
   Personally I was put off by the lack of any explicit reference to Scotland. There was nothing much at all that gave the impression this was written for and by Scots.
   On a practical note, the removal of MSPs was a problem. The comment was “the government have too much work as it is”. Personally, I don’t think many MSPs could stand the stress of having to be both an MP in Westminster and work in Holyrood. And yes … the list MSPs are largely a waste of time, but this needs thinking through more.
   The other big problem is the NHS. Everyone knows its the Scottish NHS. Again, I just felt someone from England had copy and pasted the English policy. I would guess the education policy and perhaps law would be similar. These are all uniquely Scottish. They are fully functional and independent areas of government in Scotland. They may share many features, but many features are very different.
   And … whilst I’ve been offended by the gaelic zealots … there are many areas where Gaelic is a part of their traditional culture as is the Scots Dialect in the the NE. I personally would explicitly state that UKIP will support (increase support?) for traditional cultures and languages.
   And it’s too late for me to say this politely, but your economic policy sucks. It’s all motherhood and apple-pie and I see nothing there that gives me any confidence that the policies will improve the Scottish economy (perhaps because it wasn’t actually written for the Scottish context?)
   … And I remember the other oddity. You seem to want to elect everyone from government officials to health boards. That is a daft policy – increasing party politicians at the same time as getting rid of MSPs (WHO DO YOU THINK WILL RUN FOR ELECTIONS … THOSE MSPS!).
   I’m totally in favour of moves to get more citizen involvement. E.g. I was a school governor in England. I only did it because I got my arm twisted, but I think it really helped the School to get an independent board (and not the Education authority) to decide of major issues.
   Yes I applaud your wish to give more control to ordinary people … but the reality is that elections don’t work … and I certainly don;t want more elections because it will end up being a choice between a labour candidate who failed to get elected and a Tory/SNP who failed to get elected … and most people will not bother to find out who is standing and instead vote for the party. Which will mean that in effect the same old-school-boy network of corrupt politicians are still running everything.
7. Mike Scott-Hayward says:

   16 March 2013 at 08:53

   Thanks for the good news! I am about to set off for a full dayout so will get back to you on your points, if I may. Many thanks. Mike.
8. Mike Haseler says:

   16 March 2013 at 11:23

   Mike, I’m not expecting an immediate answer – I’m just telling you how you appear to me when I first read the manifesto.
   I suppose, I should also so … I searched using google for “UKIP Scotland”. I quickly found the site. There wasn’t a lot on it. It was however functional. I did check you out … but could not find a Wikipedia entry, but I did find other CVs I also went onto the UKIP web site and had a look through one of the few things that were there to peruse which was a strange assortment of …. I think it was “how to report to UKIP if you are standing as a UKIP candidate”.
   Otherwise, I found the article in the Herald … found a few comments condemning the SNP on their independence statements … which I don’t disagree with, but if you are against all kinds of independence for Scotland, you may as well say you are against Scotland … and that probably means 90% of the public would not even consider voting for you. Scotland is already independent in much of its legal system, education and perhaps to a lesser extent the National Health. It also has a similar but separate identity and culture from England. These are statements of fact. The question is how much should the political institutions follow that unique identity and how much should be based on common identity.
   Attacking or undermining Scottish institutions is attacking the Scottish identity … and by implication Scots … who most also see themselves as British.
   For a man … think of it this way. Scotland is our wife, but the UK is our mother. (or vica versa). To say you cherish one, does not mean you do not also cherish the other. So, just because many Scots value the relationship with England, doesn’t mean we don’t cringe when people attack the independent identity of Scotland.
9. David Bailey says:

   18 April 2013 at 16:42

   I joined UKIP a while back. I don’t like everything they stand for – I don’t want Trident, and I am happy for homosexuals to marry if they wish, but we really have to have a party that stands up against the increasingly absurd climate agenda and against unrestricted immigration and multi-culturism, British values of individual rights and the rights of women have to come ahead of imported ideas that we abandoned as wrong centuries ago.
   Their policy on Europe is part of all that, because it has been rules from Europe that have shackled policy in Britain. OK – I live well south of the border, but really the issues are the same, I think.
10. Mike Haseler says:

    18 April 2013 at 16:57

    If we all wanted a party that was just perfect for us … there’d be 50,000,000 parities with one member each. For me the most important things is that the party listens to people and respects them — but doesn’t just pander to knee jerk “scares” like global warming.
    On Trident – I’m glad I don’t have to make that decision. Get the economy wrong … and we are all a bit poorer. Get defence wrong and … we are all dead(er)… you know what I mean.
11. Grimble says:

    11 May 2013 at 10:50

    I see you’ve now been outed as an intolerant nutcase on the subject of gay marriage. What a shock (not) that you’re also apparently a spokesman for UKIP.
    Are there any normal, pleasant human beings with a grasp of the 21st century and the society we live in, who are also UKIP members? Judging from the hundreds of conspiracy-theorist nutters, obsessed weirdoes and nasty neo-Nazis who all claim to be Ukippers in the comment threads of papers like the Telegraph, the answer would appear to be “nope”.
12. Scottish Sceptic says:

    11 May 2013 at 11:51

    Thank you for your comment Grimble.
    Now may I suggest you read the article and comment on that.
    Also, as you are new, please note that attacks on other posters are not permitted.
13. Scottish Sceptic says:

    11 May 2013 at 12:03

    Now I have taken off my admin hat so to speak I will answer all the substantial points in your post.
    That was easy.
14. Grimble says:

    11 May 2013 at 12:08

    My comment is that someone who has stood for the Greens and Lib Dems, then switched to UKIP, would appear to have the most fantastically flexible personal political agenda. Some unkind souls might even accuse such a person of jumping on any passing bandwagon.
    I notice that Scott-Hayward has never got back to you on your trenchant (and correct) criticisms of UKIP’s joke of a manifesto. UKIP are not a real party, have no depth of thought or consideration behind their knee-jerk positions on almost every issue, and as you’ll be aware, many of their supporters down south are contemptuous and ignorant in equal measure of all things to do with Scotland and its identity.
    U KIP if you want to, but the rest of us reserve the right to laugh heartily at this bunch of nasty nutcases.
15. Scottish Sceptic says:

    11 May 2013 at 12:34

    Now that is a much harder post to answer!
    I forget why I joined the Lib Dems. It may have been a dislike of Thatcher. But I know why I left. Europe was one issue and VAT was the other. Not the level of VAT but the total lack of knowledge by anyone in the party of how VAT worked and I could see they were a disaster for small business people.
    On the greens and I am still green … e.g. I am part of the “Save Lenzie Moss Campaign“. However I left the greens because of their lack of support for a local hospital (something that the UKIP policy to give local referenda would have resolved for the better). But it was also painfully obvious how naive the Greens were. They were just sucking up to big wind and again … they hadn’t a clue how much damage would be done to the environment by wind. But at the time like many others I thought it was necessary. It wasn’t and I am really angry to have been misled this way.
    Later – and I regret to say this far too late – I went to check up on the science of global warming and to say I was disgusted by what I found is an understatement. We now have a position where something like 40% of households in Scotland are in fuel poverty and getting worse because of this government’s obsession with global warming and there is not another party in Scotland that has the interests of ordinary people at heart. It really is criminal the way they put up fuel bills when Scotland, due to our colder climate suffers more than most countries from excessive winter deaths.
    But we must support UKIP, because the reality is that like so much in politics, we don’t have any real say over this policy. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what we in Scotland think about global warming – we like the rest of Europe – and unlike almost every other country in the world, are being forced to put up these bird mincers and pay through the nose by higher fuel bills for the privilege. Although – I wish I could find a name for the shear absolute horror I saw when I was surveying a wind site and accidentally told a local farmer than a wind farm was about to be erected close to them. People like that lady’s lives are being ruined by the idiots in parliament who haven’t a clue about climate science. Someone has to do something and I really wish it had not been me.
    On the policy front – you are quite right they could be improved. Why do you think I, like many many others have decided to help them?
16. David Bailey says:

    11 May 2013 at 16:43

    Grimble,
    I can readily understand someone moving from a Green to a UKIP position – because I did it myself – although I never stood for office, and don’t intend to start.
    The Greens used to stand on real issues, not on bogus solutions (windfarms) to a bogus problem.
    UKIP did awfully well at the recent elections, because a lot of people in the UK are sick of the current parties, and the mess they are making of the country. I would not call them “right wing”, more a party of common sense. I’d say it is definitely common sense not to walk into a power shortage over stopping our 2% contribution to CO2 while the rest of the world goes ahead much as normal, the global temperature curve is flat, and temperatures in the UK have been unusually low.

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